Armour: Difference between revisions

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From what I understand the basics of the game is Armour is protection, and should be the baseline. Within the rules their is no other protection except for specific things, like Natural Armour which does not stack with normal, you take the better of. Armour of Earth prevents 1 point of damage from each attack and that's a little open to interpretation, weather it works on spells or not. Most people assume it is only physical damage.
From what I understand the basics of the game is Armour is protection, and should be the baseline. Within the rules their is no other protection except for specific things, like Natural Armour which does not stack with normal, you take the better of. Armour of Earth prevents 1 point of damage from each attack and that's a little open to interpretation if it works on spells or not. Most people assume it is only physical damage.
 
In essence what I'm trying to say is we have a scaling problem, 20 years ago protection was all we needed. GM's made things exciting by effects that reduced armour or spells that ignored it which seemed fair enough, and as a reward for surviving, players received items that helped negate such effects. Time and years later it's a neccesity to have endurance armour and spell armour and gods knows what else to stay alive at high levels. If we look at why we started playing this game, and what we enjoyed about it, it was a simple system that allowed interesting interpretations of the rules and that set it apart from other games. Too many types of damage and thus protection can confuse the issue.
In essence what I'm trying to say is we have a scaling problem, 20 years ago protection was all we needed. GM's made things exciting by effects that reduced armour or spells that ignored it which seemed fair enough, and as a reward for surviving, players received items that helped negate such effects. Time and years later it's a neccesity to have endurance armour and spell armour and gods knows what else to stay alive at high levels. If we look at why we started playing this game, and what we enjoyed about it, it was a simple system that allowed interesting interpretations of the rules and that set it apart from other games. Too many types of damage and thus protection can confuse the issue.
Endurance hits were always meant to be scary BECAUSE they bypassed armour, and anyone with a lucky blow could do huge damage. By adding endurance armour we're negating a fundamental part of the game and risking taking he who level of the game to another tier.
 
As for spell armour, due to high games and the potential of spells to wreak so much havoc so quickly players needed a counter to mitigate the effects so they have fatigue to strike back. Again this is a scale problem, high level players are the reason this is needed, for players and GM's alike.
Endurance hits were always meant to be scary BECAUSE they bypassed armour, and anyone with a lucky blow could do huge damage. By adding endurance armour we're negating a fundamental part of the game and risking taking the whole level of the game to another tier.
The only feasable options I see from here really are returning to the games roots and scaling down high games in some effect, so players have a chance, or setting up an uncomplicated armour system so the game is not bogged down with questions to do with single items.
As for spell armour, due to high games and the potential of spells to wreak havoc so quickly players needed a counter to mitigate the effects, so they have fatigue to strike back. Again this is a scale problem that high level players and their GM's have to deal with. Spells either hit so hard its obscene (falling star) or are used to strip fatigue (Dragon Flames). When these are used on both sides and GM's need to make it survivable without making NPC's stupid and players need a survival tactic as well. With spell armour this works for both sides as long as you have some.
The only feasable options I see from here really are returning to the games roots and scaling down high games in some effect, so players have a chance, or setting up an uncomplicated armour system so the game is not bogged down with questions to do with individual items and situations.
A quick suggestion I haven't thought through:
A quick suggestion I haven't thought through:
Armour = normal
Armour = normal

Revision as of 11:27, 23 February 2014

Armour is protection from damage, by default this refers to protection from physical damage (reducing current Fatigue) but can also refer to protection from physical damage to Endurance or protection from magical damage.

The following terms are used to describe the types and effects of armour.

Some items and abilities will have different behaviour from these definitions but these standard terms should be used wherever possible and describe the default behaviour with exceptions only where explicitly stated.

Categories of Protection

Armour is defined in terms of the amount of protection it provides in the following categories:

Fatigue Protection (FT Prot / FP)
decreases damage from physical attacks to Fatigue.
If not otherwise specified this is the kind of protection that armour provides. Also referred to as AP (Armour Protection).
Endurance Protection (EN Prot / EP)
decreases damage from physical attacks to Endurance.
Does not normally stop the Endurance damage of a Specific Grievous result but normally applies against the rolled damage.
Damage Reduction (DR)
decreases damage from physical attacks to Fatigue and Endurance. Stacks with FT and EN Protection unless specified otherwise.

Qualifiers

Ablative
the protection is reduced by the damage it blocks.
Magical
applies to magical damage instead of physical.

Or more specific qualifiers may be used when the protection only applies to specific types of damage - e.g. vs Magical Fire, vs Undead Draining.

Tiers of Protection

By default the tiers stack but there is no stacking within a tier (Greatest Effect Applies) unless explicitly specified otherwise.

Aura
a field that surrounds the characters, this protection that applies before any others. E.g. Titan Aura or circle of protection.
Wielded
the protection is interposed between the character and the attack. E.g. a Shield.
Worn
something that is worn. E.g. clothing, armour, tabards, cloaks, etc.
Natural
natural toughness/resistance/immunity. E.g. thick skin, being made of metal, dipped in the Styx as a baby.

NB Magic resistance applies to a character and their possessions, reduced damage from resistance applies after the Aura, before Wielded or Worn.

Unless specified otherwise, protection provided by magic is applied as part of the Worn tier.


Discussion

I am not sure where this is going. Much of this is not a standard part of the game (Endurance Armour, Damage Reduction, Spell Armour. Abilities/itmry of this kind are only to be found on adventure.
This is what we do not want
A game where every ability conforms to some universal game syntax and for which there are no exceptions.

because this is dry and sterile and boring and stifles the imagination and reduces the gaming experience to calculation and economics.

This is what we do want

non-standard abilities/itemry which, while cool, are unambiguous and easy to administer to a sensible reader.

What we need to crush out of players until their screams fade to whimpers

questions like "Where it says <enter text player would like changed> do you mean <ludicrous interpretation that only a flatworm might consider> or do you mean <ludicrous interpretation, which is marginally less ridiculous than the previous one and which is the player's preference>?"

I have four types of damage avoidance:

  1. Protection - works vs physical damage that is not armour defeating (includes Ice Projectiles, Ice Bolt, Diamond Javelins and similar magic).
  2. Endurance Armour - works vs physical damage which is armour defeating but does not affect the special damage of Specific Grievious Injuries. Does not stack with Protection.
  3. Spell Armour - works vs magical damage (but not Ice Projectiles, Ice Bolt, Diamond Javelins, or similar magic)
  4. Damage Reduction - works vs all damage of any kind unless specifically ruled out (E.g. does not apply vs A Class damage, does not apply vs Lightning damage, etc) but beyond that stacks with Protection or Spell Armour. It does not stack with Endurance Armour, the greatest defense applies.

I use the idea of tiers that Stephen has set out, although I don't think that anything is added by saying that there is no benefit to an aura on resisting. It is pointlessly exceptional, and in any cause players would simply seek to have its effectiveness doubled to counter the nerf.
Jim Arona


From what I understand the basics of the game is Armour is protection, and should be the baseline. Within the rules their is no other protection except for specific things, like Natural Armour which does not stack with normal, you take the better of. Armour of Earth prevents 1 point of damage from each attack and that's a little open to interpretation if it works on spells or not. Most people assume it is only physical damage.

In essence what I'm trying to say is we have a scaling problem, 20 years ago protection was all we needed. GM's made things exciting by effects that reduced armour or spells that ignored it which seemed fair enough, and as a reward for surviving, players received items that helped negate such effects. Time and years later it's a neccesity to have endurance armour and spell armour and gods knows what else to stay alive at high levels. If we look at why we started playing this game, and what we enjoyed about it, it was a simple system that allowed interesting interpretations of the rules and that set it apart from other games. Too many types of damage and thus protection can confuse the issue.

Endurance hits were always meant to be scary BECAUSE they bypassed armour, and anyone with a lucky blow could do huge damage. By adding endurance armour we're negating a fundamental part of the game and risking taking the whole level of the game to another tier. As for spell armour, due to high games and the potential of spells to wreak havoc so quickly players needed a counter to mitigate the effects, so they have fatigue to strike back. Again this is a scale problem that high level players and their GM's have to deal with. Spells either hit so hard its obscene (falling star) or are used to strip fatigue (Dragon Flames). When these are used on both sides and GM's need to make it survivable without making NPC's stupid and players need a survival tactic as well. With spell armour this works for both sides as long as you have some. The only feasable options I see from here really are returning to the games roots and scaling down high games in some effect, so players have a chance, or setting up an uncomplicated armour system so the game is not bogged down with questions to do with individual items and situations. A quick suggestion I haven't thought through: Armour = normal Endurance = 1/3 Armour Spell = 1/2 Normal At low levels every bit will help, and high levels you'll get the spell and endurance protection you want, while still focusing on the base armour of the game. Ablative like fire armour would work, and would provide the best protection, Damage reduction like Armour of Earth would affect everything, and as a GM and a player one value is all you need to work with. 'Joe Parker (Eltan / SSRC)