Talk:Guild Meeting March 2026

v3 General

A / J / M

The have been some skills with Master rank abilities behind the Rank 8 "gate", but this proposed breakdown of skills into Apprentice, Journeyman,and Master formalises this for all skills and for A and J at least the category separation in Assassin and Thief seems a bit arbitrary. (The arbitrary nature of the A/J split is even more pronounced in the - draft - versions of Courtier and Troubadour). The same problem doesn't exist in Healer which has always granted specific skills at specific ranks. Martin (talk) 00:02, 9 January 2026 (UTC)

All A @ Zero vs. Pick X + 1

After review I'm uncomfortable with the "All A @ zero" approach. It was hard to see this with Healer (having been a Ladder skill) and with Assassin and book-Thief (both having been Flat), but is (IMO) a clear backwards step against Thief 2 (or current Spy) and (looking forward) against Courtier and Troubadour. "All A @ zero" makes all Rank 0-3 characters the same which appears to stand in direct contradiction to the major benefits of "Pick" style skills.

We can Adopt A/J/M, but then give some A at 0, 1 A at each of 1-3, and then allow J (or A) from 4-7, and M (or J or A) from 8-10.

All A @ zero appears harmless when viewed through the lens of Ladder or Flat skills, but if there is an expectation that it will be used consistently, and will be applied to Pick X + 1 skills then this is an ideal example of the "camel's nose" and should be stopped before it gets going. Let's not add this, and assuming a review of Beast Master is on the cards (to fit with Standard BC and Spec at 1-per-rank) it would be ideal to resolve this. Martin (talk) 08:24, 17 January 2026 (UTC)

Providing some abilities at Rank 0 and then 1 per Rank (within applicable mastery group):

Supports more diverse characters
Better allows players to design to their ideas
Provides consistency in Ranking all the way from Rank 1 up
Makes adding additional / optional low power abilities easier

Couple of specific future issue examples:

Player wants their character to come from somewhere exotic and have unusual courtier abilities such as Origami, Chado, or Ikebana. With Pick X + 1 this can be easily accommodated. They take these in place of other starting abilities. This requires special handling with All A @ zero.
Apprentice abilities that can or must be learnt more than once. e.g. "Etiquette must be learnt separately for different cultures." With Pick X + 1 this can be easily accommodated but requires special handling with All A @ zero.

Martin (talk)

Beastmaster 3.0

Please note, original skill is Beast Master, v3 is Beastmaster. Which is correct?

Apprentice Abilities: Animal Gear, Assist Healer, Breed Animal, Call Ally, Care, Domesticate Animal, Gleaning Ingredients, Mounts, Simple Ally, Train Animal.

Standard Success Chance Characteristics

The new success calculation introduces the use of a characteristic. For Healer almost all of the sub-skills use WP, but Assassin and Thief rely on multiple characteristics. There is existing reliance on some of these (MD and AG for example) but others (MA, WP) are not currently used significantly, in these skills. Healer does not currently rely on WP (at all). A player may create a character with WP as their dump stat and still be an effective Healer.

Existing characters being converted to these skills will likely find their previous stat selections limit their options. Low WP pretty much kills being a Healer. Martin (talk) 00:37, 9 January 2026 (UTC)

See notes below on Heal Endurance base chance.
Beast Master *(pre v3) already had a WP minimum of 15, and some other skills have stat restrictions or bonuses for high values, but others currently have no such ties to statistics and set any such expectations with a player. Martin (talk) 23:29, 10 January 2026 (UTC)

Assumed Competence

While understanding there are different styles of play, many of the skills as they current stand provide or assume a level of competence, at least based on Rank. A Rank 3 Healer getting Heal EN performs it competently, maybe not amazingly, but OK. A Rank 8 Healer is assumed to Heal EN well. Adding individual chances changes this significantly. Martin (talk) 08:17, 17 January 2026 (UTC)

Specialisation

If this is a general approach that we expect to see in multiple skills could we get a rule on the standard maximum for these, e.g. is it max 3? max5? Unless explicitly specified in a sub-skill. Is there any chance of getting a fixed number and altering the ones that don't currently conform? Obviously some sub-skills will not benefit from any specialisation (e.g. where there's no BC and no special additions.) Martin (talk) 23:02, 6 January 2026 (UTC)

Personally I think the specialisation idea adds pointless complication with very little additional benefit. Subskills add enough rangle and options within skills that adding more on top of that has an extremely limited return for the additional paperwork and complexity. The same effect could be created with Rk based improvements in a subskill. This is then complicated by the fact that Theif then takes the subskills that are selectable and goes the other way making them mandatory and Rk based. So we have some skills gaining additional complexity, others having it removed. I would like to see a clear and agreed style for skills that should then be used for all new skills as a standard. --Mandos (talk) 08:41, 9 January 2026 (UTC)

Number of Specs per Rank

Has this been standardised at 1 per rank (+more purchasable)? Martin (talk) 23:02, 6 January 2026 (UTC)

Does Beast Master need updating? Martin (talk)

Beast Master

I think the version adopted some time back needs its formulae updated to fold the base% into the modifier% as has been done with Assassin, Healer, and Thief. Martin (talk) 23:10, 6 January 2026 (UTC)

Assassin feedback

General comments: Assassin has always been a primarily combat focused skill whose core ability is stabbing people. My comments are intended to be in-line with this historical use. Martin (talk) 00:33, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

Surprise Attack / Backstab / Stab them in the Face

A benefit in combat when attacking from (primarily) behind is the single-most core ability of the current / historical Assassin skill and I believe needs to remain available to all. Breaking this into A/J/M when it already has Rank based modifiers looks unnecessary. Martin (talk) 00:33, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

Preferred: Consolidate back under Apprentice with the different situational modifiers. Martin (talk)
Suggested ability: Deadly Strikes.

Making vs. Using

Is the plan to move making poisons / gas bombs etc from Alchemist/Herbalist to Assassin? Historically poisons have been made by one profession and then used by Assassins. There is nothing preventing a PC from learning one of the skills that deals with poisons or other chemicals; I don't see it needs to be folded into Assassin. Martin (talk) 00:33, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

One caveat here, thinking about the use of these devices, Smoke Bombs do feel like a primarily Assassin tool rather than an alchemical concoction. Martin (talk)

Master level Magical Abilities

Attacking through shadows or passing through walls are great ideas for individual PC abilities and something that can and should be sought out on adventure. I do not think these are desirable as standard master rank options and would rather see the skill stick closer to non-magical. Martin (talk) 00:33, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

Anne suggested these could be moved out of the published skill and into a GM suggestions list. Rumoured / mythic abilities that PCs might seek after. I think that is a decent compromise to having these strongly magical sub skills in the standard offering. Martin (talk)

Abilites

I love the reducing Death Buzz ability and think that is a great addition to the skill.

Chameleon not so much, unless you have had your fatigue cap removed this is pretty unusuable because of the fatigue costs and the duration is miniscule. 4 Pulses of avoiding being seen by a person or 2 and you are exhausted. --Mandos (talk) 08:57, 9 January 2026 (UTC)

There are more than a few with high FT costs that I'm having trouble reconciling with an FT of less than 30. Martin (talk)

Healer feedback

Healer has always been a magical skill associated with restoring living creatures, and with some minor abilities in modifying them, my comments are intended to be in-line with this historical use. Martin (talk) 23:38, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

Resolved issues removed.

Heal Endurance

Base Chance

Open issue re. Base Chance Martin (talk)

Only a decent rank healer with specs in this subskill is going to have a reliable chance. Example Healer is now Rank 7, with 3 specs in here (but still WP 15) has a CC of (2 x 15) + (5 x 7) + (5 x 3) -40 = 40%
(OK, a less than reliable chance.)
Even if the same healer has now maxed out their WP at 20, it's still only 50%... in place of the current 97%

Is this an intended outcome? How has this run in play testing at different levels? How have lower ranked (or low WP) Healers found this to work? Martin (talk) 01:04, 9 January 2026 (UTC)
Keep retuning to this because Healing EN feels like a bread-and-butter Healer ability. As it is, a Rank 10, 25 WP Healer with 3 specs has a 75% cast chance. This doesn't feel right to me. Martin (talk)

Midwife

Suggest stating that only one Healer bonus applies, and that it cannot stack with Blessing on Unborn Child (must affect different Stats). Martin (talk) 23:38, 4 January 2026 (UTC)

Thief feedback

General comments: Thief always been a primarily non-magical skill whose core abilities were used on adventure. My comments are intended to be in-line with this historical use.

I wish to restate my opposition to strongly magical Master abilities. An individual PC thief getting a special ability to Steal MR or Def or similar is great, it's Mythic level / fire from the gods type stealing and something PC thieves should aspire to. And GMs are always free to give their weird NPCs whatever abilities they want, I just don't think this should be part of the general knowledge (albeit Master level) of the skill. Martin (talk) 00:42, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

Anne suggested these could be moved out of the published skill and into a GM suggestions list. Rumoured / mythic abilities that PCs might seek after. I think that is a decent compromise to having these strongly magical sub skills in the standard offering. Martin (talk)

I concour with the comments above. This is basically Thief 2 with the skills selection removed and some pretty crazy abilities added on top that in my opinion, other than having the word steal crowbarred into the title, have little to nothing to do with the skill at all. --Mandos (talk) 08:48, 9 January 2026 (UTC)

It might be worth ensuring that v2 is circulated as it fixed most of the things v3 appears to want to fix. Martin (talk)

Here are the links to Thief 2.05 --Mandos (talk) 00:25, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Thief v2 and the file is File:Thief 205.docx

Style

One of the key differences between 2 and 3 is the fact that in v3 skills are grouped by level rather than choices. In fiction there are many archetypes of a thief, a cat burgler, a mugger, a pickpocket etc. Grouping them by level makes thieves much more generic rather than allowing for the colour selecting the important skills that build the archetype you want to play, why does a catburgler need to know how to mug or intimidate people?

Either option is valid, but I would very much favour the selection of skills to build the thief you want to be. Perhaps as a compromise between 2 and 3 some skills could be labelled as journeyman only to help build that aspect into tthe skill. --Mandos (talk) 00:25, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Future Looking

I agree, and looking forward to some of the other draft V3 skills the situation gets worse. The (proposed) A vs. J split in Courtier and Troubadour for example is largely arbitrary, why is "Mime" Journeyman? Or "Comedy"?

Healer is in the interesting space where the different abilities have different "power"... Empathy is a lower/weaker power than Curing something. And the skill has always been laddered. The same structure isn't necessarily a good all round fit.

Going this way would mean reverting the "all A at 0" to a number, with picks from there - similar to current Courtier for example. Martin (talk) 10:59, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The more I look at this the less I like the "all A at 0" approach. All this does is ensure that all Rank 0-3 characters with a skill are identical in that skill. This appears to fly in the face of picking abilities instead of having entirely flat or laddered skills. It appears to formalise an idea that DQ skills are in some fashion "classes" with certain expectations.
It was hard to see this when looking at Healer because currently all Rank 0+ Healers have the same abilities. This issues become clearer looking at Thief etc Martin (talk) 16:52, 14 January 2026 (UTC)