Talk:Peter's Warrior Guide
After re-reading the Shield stuff it appears the Charge and Rush are different actions. Having never seen them played seperatly I wondered if this is intentional or a mis-reading on my part, or possibly just something no-one has noticed previously. --Mandos 15:10, 2 Apr 2008 (NZST)
Flee gives the same options as an Unengaged Move (not any Unengaged Action).
- Unengaged Move
An unengaged figure may move any number of hexes up to their TMR. During movement, a figure may change facing as desired.
This does not allow for shield charges as part of a flee - otherwise it wouldn't really be a Flee, it would be the character declaring they are going to be unengaged (so going after all engaged opponents), and then picking any unengaged action, which is not allowed - when people are waving swords at you, you are limited in your choice of action.
A Shield Rush is different from a Shield Charge. With a Shield Rush, you must move at least 1 hex; with a Shield Charge, you must move at least 2 hexes. A Shield Rush of 1 hex is at -15, and with 2 or more hexes, is at +20. A Shield Rush is a type of Special Attack you can do with a Melee Attack (step & strike) or while Charging, but is much better with a little momentum.
From DQ Second Edition Shield Rush: The attacker must be armed with any shield except a Main Gauche or Tower Shield. The Base Chance is 40% and the damage is D10-2. Rank with the shield will increase the Base Chance, as with any weapon. If the attack is successful, the target must attempt to roll less than or equal to his modified AGx3, falling prone if he fails. If this attack is occurring at the terminiation of a Charge attack, the Base Chance is increased by 20%.
While we now need to move at least one hex to shield rush (hence the 'rush'), the basic rule remains the same. --Andreww 21:05, 2 Apr 2008 (NZST)
So just confirming, what I have written is correct? (Sorry struggling to understand you clarification :-) :-) --Mandos 09:16, 3 Apr 2008 (NZST)
- (1) Flee does not allow a Shield Rush (I see you've modified the main page to reflect this).
- (2) Shield Rush is not a separate action, its a modification to any melee attack action that includes movement before the strike (as explained far more clearly by Errol below). --Andreww 12:17, 6 Apr 2008 (NZST)
As Mandos notes, there is no -15 SC to a 1-hex Shield Rush (per 2006 Rulebook).
- If engaged, you can "Melee Attack, an engaged figure may move one hex and change facing, and then attempt a Melee Attack." No adjustment to SC, can either be a standard damage-doing attack (shield bash?:-)), or a shield rush special attack (result is 3xAG check).
- If unengaged, you can "Step & Melee Attack". Again a choice of std or shield rush.
- If unengaged, you can "Charge with Shield, +20 to SC, at least 2 hexes move". Again a choice of std or shield rush.
- The unengaged "Charge, up to half-TMR, -15 to SC" doesn't apply, as it is overlapped by "Step & Melee Attack" and "Charge with (Pole Weapon or) Shield".
It took me 3 drafts to get this right (I hope)!
One thing that should be made clear on this page is that provided you have moved a hex, you can either make a standard attack that does damage, OR do the special attack 'Shield Rush'. The shield rush is available as an option regardless of the (still uncompleted) action chosen to get the opponent into your melee zone.
The rulebook could also be clearer. I also read the Shield Rush as not doing damage. Comments?
--Errol 12:53, 3 Apr 2008 (NZST)
I too read them as separate options. I don't think they need to be as I think they could be combined without overpowering the game (in fact I suspect most GM's play them as the same thing I know I did until recently). --Mandos 14:19, 3 Apr 2008 (NZST)
- Not 100% sure exactly what 2 things are are considering seperate? Shield Rush and normal damaging attacks? Reading the other special attacks, I've changed my mind and think that they do standard damage unless some other damage (including none) is specified. As you could reasonably consider the 3xAG 'damage', the Shield Rush special attack could go either way. I agree that there is no harm to the game in having Shield Rushs doing damage (normally very minor) AND the AG check, and I think it is normally played this way. I think having the option to not attempt to the knock the target over is good. --Errol 15:02, 3 Apr 2008 (NZST)
Oops! the alleged -15 on SC is my error. Agree with your logic above. I've always played the shield rush as damage + 3xAG without thinking it through, but think this is OK. The ability to do damage and knock someone over if you move and attack with a shield is balanced by not being able to attack with 2 weapons when moving, so you have chosen not to use your more effective weapon in the hopes of a knock-down, or have moved more than 1/2 TMR and recklessly charged. --Andreww 12:04, 6 Apr 2008 (NZST)
Clarification on Flee, Melee Zone, and Rear Hexes
If my understanding is correct, I think it may be worth adding a note about being hit from rear hexes?
For the scenario where you are facing a single opponent (i.e., in one of the three hexes defined as your melee zone), is it the case that you always need to use 1 TMR to turn 180 degrees so they are no longer in your melee zone and then flee? If that's true, then as you are fleeing, don't they get +30 to their strike chance as you are in the act of fleeing?
- If we are sticking specifically to the rules, I do not believe Flee can be used as described here and on the main page. If you are engaged AND have an opponent in one of your front three hexes, you cannot choose Flee as a single action. Somehow including the turn to make it a valid action choice in the process is an invalid finesse. If you have an extra pass action through magic item or extraordinary agility, then the turn could be included in this action, and then could be followed by a Flee, but I cannot see any way a figure who is engaged by someone in front of them can Flee in a single action as the rules stand.
- Looking outside the rules, there are a lot of different interpretations by various GMs regarding Flee. Personally, I allow fleeing no matter your status on the battlefield. Any figures engaged with you as you turn and run will gain a free attack however, which is my penalty levied for using Flee in this manner. --Dean Ellis (talk) 17:09, 25 February 2014 (MST)
- Thanks Dean. I see a section "Leaving Melee Combat" on page 16 of the rules (2010 edition 1.7) which says "A figure engaged in Melee Combat may only leave Melee Combat by (i) executing a Close & Grapple; (ii) executing a Withdraw or Flee; or (iii) by stunning or otherwise incapacitating all opponents who have the figure in their Melee Zones. Other Actions may never take the figure out of any hostile Melee Zone". Additionally, page 15 of the rules has the following definition as "Melee Zone" of "The front hexes of any conscious, un- stunned, standing or kneeling figure armed with a prepared weapon rated for Melee combat." I'm confused as this seems to indicate it is possible? OR is the best approach to check with current GM on their interpretation :) Also keen to hear from Mandos on this.... --manu (talk) 17:29, 25 February 2014 (MST)