Talk:Middle Kingdom Heroes

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Engalton OM gets 9 points as a hero :-(

--Jono 19:19, 30 Jul 2008 (NZST)

Sabrina gets 11, 9 and 7 pts for Hero, Scholar and Beauty respectively :-(
Kilroy gets 10, 8 and 1 pts for Hero, Scholar and Beauty respectively :-(

Amusingly my medium level scholar scores 1,1 and 1 :-)
And how is Sabrina only one point more heroic than Kilroy, still not a hero, and even remotely scholarly! :-)
--Dean Ellis 09:19, 31 Jul 2008 (NZST)

Dramus is 8, 6, 4 :-(
Tussock is 6, 5, 4 :-(
--Mandos 11:44, 31 Jul 2008 (NZST)

No heroes here either..
Braegon is 11, 11, 3 :-(
Aryan is 5, 5, 0 :-(
-- Stephen 13:02, 31 Jul 2008 (NZST)

That's OK, you can all be 'Friends of Kit' :-)
If Braegon is more of a Scholar than Engalton is a Hero, then something is odd in this culture.

BTW, I assume the language, associations, and connections pts don't apply to us Alusians.
--Andreww 22:08, 31 Jul 2008 (NZST)

I assume you get the bonus once, no matter how often you qualify.
Isil Eth gets, I think, 9, 8 and 8 points.
I would have thought the PCs above would get several bonuses for 'weirdnesses'.
--IanW 15:11, 3 Aug 2008 (NZST)

Updated following the revisions.

Braegon is now a Hero and a Scholar 14, 13, 5 :-)
Aryan is now a Hero 12, 8, 5 possibly more if a flying boat counts as a magical mount :-)
Stephen 20:03, 7 Aug 2008 (NZST)

Kit is a Beauty (13), assuming that his religious beliefs don't reduce his Personal Virtue score below zero. Isil Eth and Sabrina are his main rivals here, but they get free "girl points". Vote Kit for Homecoming Queen.
Faith jumps from 2 to 10 as a Beauty - suddenly High Society is no longer safe after dark.
Andreww 20:40, 7 Aug 2008 (NZST)

Tussock hits 11 as a beauty, although I think High MD should give a point to beauties :-) --Mandos 11:25, 8 Aug 2008 (NZST)

Sabrina now gets 19, 13 and 15 pts for Hero, Scholar and Beauty respectively :-)
I am particularly thankful that I can beat Kit in the beauty stakes :-)
Kilroy now gets 11, 9 and 5 pts for Hero, Scholar and Beauty respectively :-(
Still not quite there (lack of 8+ skills hurts), though apparently more handsome :-)

On the subject of 'heroic', it should be noted that adventuring in the Middle Kingdoms affects your stats, and they become linked to your MA (=MD, AG, FT) and WP (=PS, EN)
This subtracts 64 off Sabrina stats :-(, and adds 42 to Kilroy :-), so is definitely a consideration
Hmmm, should the stat points in the table be before or after this modification?
--Dean Ellis 09:22, 8 Aug 2008 (NZST)

Engalton OM is now a H/S/B = 16/14/15 with no mount, associations or local connections.
Lath is now a H/S/B = 9/9/10 with mount & no associations or local connections.
Much better all around ;-) --Jono 13:55, 8 Aug 2008 (NZST)

This is first talk page, so I hope I'm doing it correctly. Original version did have an error ... I'd omitted the personal virtue section when transcribing. Thanks too to Phil who gave me a copy of the original scheme, so I tweaked some things. Also I'm shocked at how unskilled some guildmembers are! so the original 9+ has been reduced to merely 8+. Of course this means party may encounter more Heores than originally intended. Will put up in a few days final character mods [e.g. effect on transdimensional items & pacted persons) incl. changes to stats: But in efect, as Dean summarised above. Obviously table is based on your MK stats, not your demonic/denizen capabilities. -- Michael

Wow, after his current ranking Glass rates Hero (12, 9, 10) (Assuming his unique combat style of upside down and/or floating archery can count) Struan 13:50, 10 Aug 2008 (NZST)

I get 5,6,4 for Phaeton --Keith 02:33, 11 Aug 2008 (NZST)

Okay, the character formerly known as Kathleen, based on preliminary current ranking, is obviously too much of a generalist : 13/9/12, And is Kit a famous hero? cos that would give a +3 to the beauty stakes. Of course if wives don't count as a consort in that category, may have to arrange something else... Hannah 05:44, 11 Aug 2008 (NZST)

Points raised above:

  1. Stat bonuses apply to one’s MK stats ONLY: No true hero would claim “actually I’m superstrong … but only in the hell-dimension that I’m really from”
  2. Congratulations on being both a beauty & [principle] wife of a Governor/hero/... [obviously you are either favoured by destiny or have successfully poisoned your rivals].
  3. Yes there is something weird about the H/S/B culture.

To a certain extent, ALL superdrow characters are expected to be the same: civilised; one or two superb skills; usually capable of incapacitating or killing a non-champion in a single action; moderately moral, without being excessively so; seeking their self-interest, but capable of adopting a higher motivation. H/S/Bs are champions: both the products & tools of Destiny. Collegicity varies: frequently a brilliant mage, or totally a non-mage, or a gifted apprentice, or with a just a couple of magical talents/abilities. Although the skills bonuses are NOT the basis of H/S/B-ism, they reflect the popular prejudices. E.g., Scholars aren't merchants, but heroes certainly can be ... yet, in fact, semi-retired scholars often make a very good living as paper & calligraphic merchants, with the nice house & gardens typical of successful merchants; whereas it's almost a tradition that retired heroes with moral integrity barely scrape by as itinerant sandal-makers.
One difference is that most Heroes are sober for the most part, yet may get drunk without criticism -- and repeated drunkenness is merely a foible in a hero, perhaps a minor weakness … little more than a plot device. Yet a drunk scholar or beauty reveals inner incompetence, depravity, or excessive corruption. But the biggest difference is public attitude (including reaction rolls). Everyone likes heroes. Even enemy heroes are usually nice guys. Indeed persons in power (i.e., persons seeking even more power) will often aid or reward enemy heroes: sometimes in an attempt to bribe win the hero over (it works often enough); often because “the enemy of my heroic enemy is an even bigger threat”, so one assists a wolf in order to destroy a tiger; but ALWAYS in an attempt to curry favour with both champions, as a whole, & with the common people, to be perceived as fit for power: One assists even enemy heroes because one perceives & rewards talents … so future champions will flock to one’s banner; one doesn’t openly fear heroes -- one who fears Destiny is unworthy of office, riches, or power.
But you can’t trust Scholars -- all that reading, calligraphy, poetry, & deep thinking changes a rational drow: you don’t know where their real interests lie. Too often they become ridiculously incorruptible, or so good at it that they’ll say & receive anything without changing their secret plans. And everyone adores Beauties: charming people who are so pleasant, right up to the moment they stab you in the back (literally or figuratively). “Beauty is deceiving” But hopefully any given beauty really intend destroying their own rivals (especially one with a similar name), or perhaps merely one’s acquaintances or even one’s enemies, … so the odds that oneself is the immediate target of a beauty are quite low (especially if the beauty is particularly famous). So when in the presence of a Beauty, just enjoy the show; relax & know that if the blow is directed at you, you won’t see it coming. --Mike Parkinson 10:23, 17 Aug 2008 (NZST)